neowiccan ([info]neowiccan) wrote,
@ 2009-06-04 22:40:00
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Current mood: contemplative

international pagan values blogging month
not a bandwagon i'm gonna be jumping on.
i'm a pagan and i have values, but the values themselves are not intrinsically pagan. they're human values.
i hate it when christians start yawping about how our country was formed on 'christian values' and when asked what they are talk about values that are mine as much as theirs.
it seems hypocrital to me to try and claim the values important to me.....honesty, piety, arete, family and community for example.......as 'pagan.' i know too many non-pagans who share them wholeheartedly.
khairete
suz


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[info]hewet_ka_ptah
2009-06-05 03:39 am UTC (link)
I'm right there with ya, love.

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[info]cornute
2009-06-05 07:52 am UTC (link)
But surely you godless heathens have nothing like our moral tales that guide us in hospitality (Lot and his daughters) or the proper treatment of enemies in wartime (David, who cut the foreskins off several thousand men for a bride-price)...

I'm not helping, am I?

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[info]neowiccan
2009-06-05 01:39 pm UTC (link)
bwark!!!
:DD
khairete
suz

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[info]ursus_of_unrv
2009-06-05 10:11 am UTC (link)
I certainly know Christians who better embody the values of family and community than a lot of pagans I know.

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[info]labrys6
2009-06-05 04:31 pm UTC (link)
I am of two minds about this. (Ok, fine, I am of two minds about a lot of stuff!) Yes, my values are not necessarily pagan. But when you think about it, neither are the Christian ones---they simply affixed that adjectival jive because there is a story in the Bible to exemplify some of them.

And then....some of my values ARE pagan ---arete, for instance, is very Greek and very pagan. I would not have thought of this myself (sometimes I AM a shallow blonde), but over 20 years ago, answering a question on what I ran my life upon, from my fav philosophy prof, while in the bare beginning of public transition from Catholic to pagan, he suddenly expostulated "But, Cynthia, that is purely PAGAN!" And things suddenly crystalized in my head like a Tetris game on steroids.

So, I don't know. I might have to consider this as a valid shoot back. Or a valid TAKE BACK. It reminds me of an odd conversation I had about ten years ago, on the phone with my Republican Congressional Rep; as we talked about several issues, he suddenly said "But you said you were a Democrat?" "I AM" I replied. "But those are Conservative values you are quoting." I corrected him, "Those are VALUES, and nobody has the patent on either side of the party line."

Same thing here. I think the point of blogging about it as pagan values is to tear down the notion that they are owned by Christians only.

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[info]neowiccan
2009-06-05 05:35 pm UTC (link)
But when you think about it, neither are the Christian ones---<<<

yes. hence my statements 'the values themselves are not intrinsically pagan. they're human values' and 'when asked what they are talk about values that are mine as much as theirs'.

'And then....some of my values ARE pagan ---arete, for instance, is very Greek and very pagan.'

arete is a greek word. no spoken word, no ethnic group, and no religion has exclusive rights on the value of arete.

'I think the point of blogging about it as pagan values is to tear down the notion that they are owned by Christians only.'

probably so.
the reason i'm not doing it and don't think it's a good idea is because trying to tear them away from christianity and applying the label 'pagan' to them is just as facetious as what the christians have tried to do.
khairete
suz


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[info]labrys6
2009-06-05 05:40 pm UTC (link)
Yes...values are values. Period. But then, that was the point of my blog on this topic: I was told it was 'blog on pagan values' week...or month, or something.



http://walkofthefallen.com/wordpress/2009/06/05/bottled-words/

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[info]labrys6
2009-06-05 05:40 pm UTC (link)
Whoops, sorry, didn't delete all the text when I copied and pasted. Damn, need more coffee.

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[info]neowiccan
2009-06-05 06:35 pm UTC (link)
http://walkofthefallen.com/wordpress/2009/06/05/bottled-words/

nice!
khairete
suz

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[info]eireannoir
2009-06-06 05:28 am UTC (link)
amen! especially when those so-called Christians values are found in much older religions and are therefore not solely Christian.

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[info]sannion
2009-06-06 06:43 pm UTC (link)
I understand and completely respect your position. But for me, my values are religious, and they are tied in with my adherence to Greco-Egyptian polytheism. I'm glad that you have this ingrained moral core. I suspect a lot of people are like you. For me, this is not an automatic or natural thing. Ethical thought and moral behavior are artificial to who I am - people instinctively look at a situation in terms of right-or-wrong; even as a child I found it difficult to wrap my head around these concepts - it is something that I have imposed on myself because I feel that this is a necessary aspect of Greco-Egyptian polytheism, and I wish for my life to be pleasing to the gods. As such, it requires a lot of work to keep going, and will probably never feel entirely comfortable, but I am okay with that. I think you've known me long enough to recognize a difference between how I acted and expressed myself prior to immersing myself in this tradition, and how I do so now. None of which, of course, detracts from the validity of your points - I merely wished to point out that it is not always so.

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(Anonymous)
2009-06-07 06:37 am UTC (link)
I heard a thought for the day slot on the radio by an official in the Salvation Army (do you have that over there?) Anyway he was saying that science has given us a framework around which we can understand the physical world and how we fit & act within it and that religion does the same for the spiritual/emotional/ethical side of life. I was shouting at the radio that that is philosophy as its quite possible to have ethics & values without following any religion. I quite agree that claiming values only apply to members of a particular religion do nothing to encourage mutual respect between members of those religions. Better to stress the importance of thinking about and evaluating honestly the impact of how you behave on yourself & the world around you in order to establish worthwhile values rather than mindlessly going with the flow for the sake of conveience. Wx

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uhm, pardon me, but...
[info]chrysalis1witchesjourney.wordpress.com
2009-06-11 01:24 pm UTC (link)
Uhm, I think there's a little confusion here... Since I am the one who started this little blog carnival may I set the record straight? It's not about claiming that any of these values are intrinsically Pagan, its about pointing out that the many Pagan paths have them, that Virtues and Values and Ethics are not somehow the sole province of any one group or religion.

I thought you might be interested in the original text...

"Dear Pagani,

I have decided that I am tired at how some factions within other spiritual and faith traditions talk and act as if they have a monopoly on values and virtue and ethics.

Therefore I am issuing a call and a challenge to my fellow Pagan netizens…

In June the sun is at it’s height in the Northern Hemisphere and nearly hidden from view in the Southern Hemisphere. Midsummer and Yule, festivals of fire and of light.

Let us then use our hearts and minds and words, invoking the fires of inspiration; let us write of the virtues and ethics and morals and values we have found in our Pagan paths, let us share how we carry these precious things forward in our own lives and out into the world.

Join me, in the month of June 2009 in writing about Pagan values."

This blog carnival is also about encouraging discussion and community and thought within the Pagan movement. I do hope you will reconsider and share some of your thoughts on these matters, and perhaps revel in some of the excellent articles already posted.

Peace,
Pax

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